OpenLab DaBY Round Table Talk Childcare and the Creative Environment vol.3.
■vol.1 is here
■vol.2 is here

 

Speakers: Mariko Kakizaki, Mami Shimazaki, Eri Karatsu
Facilitators: Chihiro Tokai, Yuka Kamimura
Guest: Ryu Suzuki

 

Changes as a father and through child rearing

Tokai: Thank you very much. Today’s speakers are all women, but since there is a DaBY associate choreographer, Ryu Suzuki, in the audience, I would like to hear the opinions of men as well. Mr. Suzuki, how do you feel now that you have a child?

Ryu Suzuki (Suzuki): I also have a 1 year and 4 month old daughter. I think the fact that I did not give birth myself is a very big difference from the three of you. I have not hurt myself. Even though things have changed since Mr. Karatsu’s time, everything related to childcare and childbirth tends to fall on women. Especially in Japan, where my wife is pregnant, gave birth, and is now raising a child, I can feel it very clearly, and I feel that there is an atmosphere of “well, a father is a father” in various ways, both from society itself and from men, in regard to our fathers’ participation in childcare. It’s just a little thing, for example, it’s called a “mommy bag. For example, when teachers at day-care centers talk to everyone, they only say “children and mothers. I think society as a whole can take better care of the upbringing of our children.

Especially as an artist and dancer, I myself have not given birth, and my belly is not getting bigger, so I have not been asked (and refused) to perform. As I listened to you, I thought that what I feel is still different in many ways.

Tokai: Have your interests or inspirations changed when creating?

Suzuki: Yes, there is. The way you see the world changes. For example, if the elevator is too far away, or if there is a stroller traffic jam, as Mariko said, you may think that you are going to be late.

Kakizaki: Before coming to DaBY, there was a place where there was a huge stroller traffic jam. There was only one elevator, and it was very narrow. People with suitcases would stand in line, and I always had to forgo going back and forth about four times.

Suzuki: It may be a small thing, but it has changed the way I look at mothers, and it has also changed the way I look at fathers. When I think about my children’s future and whether I can do for them what I have done for me, I am forced to look at society itself more than ever before. In this sense, I feel that I am now able to see the connection with society. It has only been a year and a half.

 

 

Where you don’t have to hesitate to bring your children.

Tokai: Various things have been discussed, but I think there are things that DaBY can do as well. Mr. Karatsu, I know that you also created DaBY with the desire to make it a place that is open to a wide variety of people.

Karatsu: Yes, because we started with the Corona Disaster, it has been difficult until now to attract physically weak people, especially small children. We want a variety of people to come, and we want to make it a place where people don’t have to hesitate to bring their children.

But on the other hand, there are also those who just can’t stand it, and they get mixed up in the mix. So it is very difficult to make a choice in such a situation. For example, a café that allows dogs is an exclusion for people who don’t like dogs or are allergic to them. Not everyone likes children, and that is a choice, so there is no need to impose it. I feel that we want to be open to all kinds of people in this situation, but I also feel that the more people are involved, the more difficult it becomes to determine what choices should be made in order to make everyone feel comfortable. There are many different opinions, and I don’t think it is just a childcare issue.

We are also thinking about how we can make it easier for dancers to participate in the environment and the system. The theater is a hurdle. You have to buy a ticket and take your child to the theater and tell them to be quiet. I have a strong feeling that it would be great if we could connect dance and society, not as a special event, but as a space where people can come in and enjoy the joy of dance in a place where they can run around in their everyday lives.

Kakizaki: It’s after 8pm and I’m ready to take the kids home, but first of all I am so grateful to have DaBY. I hadn’t danced for about 6 months since I gave birth, but I took barre lessons. I was able to take lessons without creation. The reason why is because the DaBY staff was holding my daughter in their arms. I was very moved by this.

 

 

I wondered what kind of discussions had led to the creation of an environment at DaBY that would accept children in this way, so I looked at past e-mails. I looked at past e-mails and found that we had not discussed anything. I didn’t communicate even a single request for this or that. DaBY made small adjustments each time, and we were able to do a lot of things. For example, I was able to participate in creations, create art, and go on tours outside of Tokyo. Even on tour, I could ask for a Japanese-style room because a single bed would fall down for me to sleep with my child. When that was difficult, they bought a baby guard for me. During the performance, the staff suggested that we leave our children at this facility because there were not many of us. During rehearsals before the show, they would say, “Our staff will watch over you. I had just become a parent myself, and when I didn’t know what to ask for, this was the place that worked with me to make adjustments. That really helped me because Mr. Karatsu is making the most of what I struggled with.

Another thing I am grateful for is that I can now demand what I have experienced at this place in larger venues such as theaters. When I get an offer, I can say, “I am raising a child, so I can’t do this and that. But I can do this and that under these conditions.” I can tell them, “I can’t do this and that because I’m raising a child. For example, many theaters have a basic rehearsal schedule of 11:00 to 18:00, but I could request at the beginning that the rehearsal time be moved up by 30 minutes. We can also ask the theater to consider whether we can leave our children at a childcare facility before the show starts, since some of the performers will have children. Now that I know what I need, I can request the details. Today, I was looking back at the various emails and was reminded how grateful I am. So, if you’ll excuse me (laughs).

Tokai: Thank you very much, Mr. Kakizaki. Now, I would like to ask a question from all of you.

 

Q&A

QUESTION 1: As you mentioned, I hear about programs for children and mothers, but are there any plans in the future for dance programs that include fathers?

Karatsu: The “Dance with Babies” project that I mentioned earlier has a daddy version and a mommy version, and we are making one for just dads, just moms, or just anyone. At first it was just moms and dads, but over the past five or six years, we have made small customizations, such as cases where moms and dads come together. But we don’t have many applications from dads. If there are not enough, we inevitably lose that program. They are limited to six months to two years old, so the number of people with babies of that age is very limited. At first, we were calling out to people in Aichi Prefecture, saying, “Dads wanted,” anyway, so that the program would not become zero, so that we could continue the program. Little by little, the number of fathers has increased, and now we are able to gather a relatively large number of fathers. I hope that DaBY will consider such a program.

Shimazaki: Itay Yatuv, a well-known contact improviser, has created a contact improvisation method called Contact Kids, which is spreading. The classes are held at dance studios and gymnasiums, and are open to both parents and children, regardless of whether they are mothers or fathers.

Questioner 2: My question is specifically for Ms. Shimazaki. You mentioned earlier how your children have influenced your creative activities.

Shimazaki: Yes, that’s right. I think I was influencing them without being aware of it. Even though I was involved in education, I taught dance, and I was not completely separated from art. Lucky for me, the world of dance and the world of the democratic schools were both liberal and not that far removed from each other. I felt that it was a more realistic world because it was education, but the children understood dance, so I didn’t have any trouble as an artist.

 

 

Karatsu: Speaking from the standpoint of watching an artist who has given birth, for example, when I see Ms. Kakizaki raising her child, I feel that she has the capacity and receptivity to accept what the child does. I am inevitably bound by the rules and conventions of parenting and what everyone else is doing. Since it is the first time and there are many things we don’t understand, I think we tend to stick to one way that everyone else is doing. But child-rearing is rather trendy. For example, it may sound strange, but there was a time when it was said that breast milk should be given until three months, but now there are various rules such as how long you can give breast milk. We tend to be bound by those rules, but artists trust their own senses. I think dancers in particular are physical, but I feel that they are more flexible and receptive to what is OK if it is OK with them rather than what is logical and set in stone.

Shimazaki:I kind of understand. There is a kind of intuition, and I was not influenced by rules, especially since I was in a democratic school, an educational setting with a system that respects each individual.

Karatsu: Is there anything else?

Suzuki: I am approaching the age when I hear that male dancers and choreographers around me have recently had children, but I don’t often talk with them about it. I was surprised that they don’t talk with other fathers about how they are involved in child-rearing. The relationship between fathers at daycare centers is unique, and they don’t talk to each other. It would be interesting to have a fathers’ group for this kind of talk.

Karatsu: Mr. Suzuki, even before your child was born, you talked about how it would be good for you and how you could do it. I think it varies, because I think there are men and women, even those who cannot have affection when they are born, and there are those who do not want to have children. But it is a really difficult problem because there are times when you have to ask people to do things even if they are not interested in how they are going to live their lives in a situation where they have children.

Tokai: Well, I would like to end here. Thank you all very much for your time today.

 

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