OpenLab DaBY Round Table Talk
OpenLab is a program open to everyone that Dance Base Yokohama (DaBY) has been running since its opening in June 2020. Round Table Talk is a series of talks that consider a sustainable dance environment from various perspectives through the Fair Creation Declaration. Staff, artists, and audience members will share their knowledge and awareness of issues to date and consider how a fulfilling creative environment can be created.

vol.2 Childcare and the Creative Environment
Many people at DaBY engage in creative activities and production work while raising children. How do you create an environment where you feel comfortable and accepted when you want to continue your activities while raising a child? We spoke from the perspective of childcare about an environment that is open to all people and in which they can maximize their own strengths and experiences.

 

Speakers: Mariko Kakizaki, Mami Shimazaki, Eri Karatsu
Facilitators: Chihiro Tokai, Yuka Kamimura

 

Surroundings at birth and at the beginning of childcare

Tokai: All of the speakers this time have children, and their careers and the ages of their children vary. We would like to ask them about their careers and the ages of their children in chronological order, starting from pregnancy and childbirth. First of all, Mami Shimazaki, you became pregnant while you were still in your fifth year with the company.

Shimazaki:I had been with the company since I was 22, and when I turned 27 or 28, I watched Sharon Eyre become pregnant and give birth. At that time, everyone was like, “You can do it. She was a leader, so she was a reference, or rather, Sharon’s giving birth to a child gave us that option. After that, myself, Yoshifumi Inao, and several others had children, and it was like a baby boom. Everyone kept going after they gave birth, and it wasn’t an atmosphere where we had to quit and go home, so we were able to have a safe pregnancy and delivery.

Tokai: If you were a little older generation, were there fewer people giving birth?

Shimazaki: Yes, that’s right. Before that, there were not many people who gave birth and continued.

Tokai: After you actually gave birth, how was the surrounding environment, support, and social maternity/paternity leave system?

Shimazaki：What helped me a lot was the one year maternity leave I received. It was a big difference because athletes and dancers get a year, while office workers get three months. I wonder if it would have been different if I had been freelance.

Tokai: It is surprising that it is longer than companies.

Shimazaki: It is physically demanding because it is still a job that uses the body. I think it also takes time to get back into shape.

Tokai: When you returned to the Company after a year, did you receive any support from the Company?

Shimazaki:They let me keep my registration in the company, and I can go back anytime during the year.

 

 

Tokai: I see, thank you very much. Another dancer, Mariko Kakizaki, gave birth in Japan. Did it coincide with your return to Japan after leaving the company?

Kakizaki: I was in Sharon’s dance company at the time, but I liked living in Japan so much that I had already cut back my work to about half and spent half of the year in Japan. After having a child, everyone, including Sharon, said to me, “Why don’t you just bring your child on tour with you!” But when the baby was actually born, it was quite difficult. I found it difficult to do so. However, when our company’s productions are staged overseas by other companies, my daughter sometimes goes with them as an assistant.

Tokai: When you gave birth in Japan, you may not have had the support of maternity leave. Were there any times when you wished you had stayed with the Company?

Kakizaki: I never once wished I had stayed with Company. But work schedules are often set a year or more in advance, so I had several jobs lined up before I became pregnant. I continued dancing until two months before the birth, even after my belly got bigger. I was able to make that choice because of the precedent I had set, and Sharon told me, “Even if you have a big belly, there are dances you can only dance when you have a big belly, and dancing isn’t just about moving your body big. She told me, “You should definitely dance even if you have a big belly. I did that too.” So I just assumed that was the case, and I had to put a lot of things on my schedule. When I actually talked to the directors and producers, of course they were very understanding and wanted to support me, but there were times when I was unable or refused to perform due to problems with the bigger money paying out. On the other hand, there were places that took care of my pregnant body and cared for me while working with me on the production. It was during these nine months that I realized that there are situations in Japan where pregnant women are treated in different ways.

 

 

Tokai: Did you notice anything when you actually danced, of course, with the physical changes happening and naturally not being able to move a lot?

Kakizaki: My body changes every day, so my physical pain was here yesterday, but today it is in this area, and while I am dancing, my daughter in my stomach always reacts with me at the same musical points. There were many physical changes, such as my center of gravity becoming lower physically, which makes it easier to turn around.

Tokai: It is a valuable experience only then.

Kakizaki: Really. I’ve been reading my diary and other things to try to remember because I have a talk today. It’s only been a couple of years, but I forget. I’ve forgotten all about how I was so mad about being turned down for the job. It was interesting to review it today, like who was to blame for all that trouble?

 

Changes in the Parental and Maternity Leave System

Tokai: It may have been some time ago, but I heard that Ms. Karatsu was also working until the very end of her pregnancy.

Karatsu: I have two children, but they are 27 and 23, so it was not just a while ago, but so long ago that I don’t even know anymore. When I had a big belly, it was even a year before that, so it was a long time ago, but it was really unprecedented at my time. Most female producers in Japan were single, older than me, working in theaters, married, and probably not having children. Since my job requires me to work late at night, I often had problems with my partner. I don’t know about other countries, but in Japan, it was the norm for women to stay at home, take care of the family, and do housework, so I really had a lot of problems continuing in that environment.

The same is true for systems. Nowadays, childcare leave and maternity leave are well established, but 27 years ago and 23 years ago were quite different. 27 years ago, the system was not yet in place. Now, civil servants (like myself) can take 3 years off if they want to, but that was a time when there was no such thing, and the childcare leave was really short. Nowadays, there are very detailed systems in place, such as allowing employees to leave early to pick up their children during childcare, but back then there was almost no such system. Also, nowadays, morning sickness is treated as a necessary vacation, and if you apply for it, you can take it, but back then, morning sickness was treated as an illness. In fact, with my first child, the morning sickness was particularly severe, and I had to live with it until the day he was born. So, if I left, there was a possibility that the position itself would disappear, so I was in a situation where I had to crawl to get there.

 

 

So, although I had a really hard time with the first one, I just had to keep going. People around me, seeing the situation, would sometimes contact me and say, “Maybe you should stop. Of course, it was partly because they were worried about my health, but they also asked me, “Is there any reason for you to work that hard? You’re married, you have children, that’s enough for a woman to be happy. That’s enough for a woman to be happy. So, before thinking about continuing to work, I thought, “I’m not going to quit here! And that was the first situation that I tried my best not to quit.

As I mentioned earlier, we had another baby four years later, but by this time it had eased up considerably and I was able to take longer vacations, so it was a little easier. There are many more, but I think a good story after that would be better than a suffering story, so that’s all for now.

Shimazaki:I returned to the Company a year after giving birth and continued for the next five years, but I had a kind of timetable for mothers. Mothers were allowed to stay a little later and finish around 3:00 p.m., when it was easier to pick them up from daycare or kindergarten. We also had the tours greatly reduced. The last year we had a lot of injuries, so we had to go on a lot of tours, but basically we were mainly performing in Japan.

Tokai: Did you leave your children in daycare?

Shimazaki:Yes, I went to preschool and kindergarten from the age of one.

Tokai: When your child had a fever, were you able to leave rehearsals?

Shimazaki: There was an understanding that if a child caught a cold, he or she should take the day off.

Tokai: How was it for you, Mr. Karatsu? I know that when your child was young, he/she had a fever at the nursery school, or something like that.

Karatsu: I lived with my husband’s mother, so that was huge. I was able to enroll my child in daycare at the age of 1, but I could only leave him there until 3:00 p.m. They extended the hours from 3:00 p.m. to a maximum of 7:00 p.m., but after everyone left at 3:00 p.m., several people stayed behind and came to pick up their children more and more. They would extend the hours from 3pm to a maximum of 7pm, but after everyone left at 3pm, a few people stayed behind, and then more and more people were picked up, and then the number of people left dwindled. By the last 7pm, there would only be one or two people left. I couldn’t even pick them up at that time, so I had to ask my grandmother or a helper to pick them up and continue.

Tokai: If there are performances, then 7:00 p.m. would not be enough time to finish.

Karatsu: Basically, I had things to do until about 6:00 p.m., and I had to spend more than an hour commuting to work, so I couldn’t get there on time. In that sense, you made me feel lonely, waiting all alone since I was about 1 year old.

 

Need to create a model

Shimazaki: You mentioned that there was no precedent, but Karatsu-san was the one who set that precedent, and what about the people who were then able to give birth more easily?

Karatsu: I think there were. Karatsu is my maiden name, but I was the first ( civil servant) to use my maiden name in Aichi Prefecture. At a time when it was absolutely necessary to change one’s surname, about four prefectures at that time allowed the use of one’s maiden name. So I asked Aichi Prefecture to allow me to use my maiden name, and somehow I was able to do so. As for continuing to work after having children, one of the people I worked with had three children in succession.

Kakizaki: That’s right, this is what happens (laughs)! When there is a precedent, the next one is born (laughs). When my daughter was about 6 months old, I was allowed to work at DaBY. And then, you know, people around DaBY were born, right?

 

 

Karatsu: Indeed. There is a baby rush. People take their children to see performances because they have no choice. There are many people who are not happy about it, but I want to be welcoming when I am in the opposite position. This leads to DaBY’s current desire to create an environment where even people with children can come.

Kakizaki: I am glad that Mr. Karatsu had a child 27 years ago. Thanks to her, I have been able to continue my dance activities after the birth of my child. My first job after giving birth was with DaBY, and when my child was only about six months old, I got a call from them and asked how I was doing… “My child is still small, I have to breastfeed her, she is frail…” They said, “It’s OK, everyone at DaBY will see you.” He said, “It’s okay, everyone in DaBY will watch. When she started to cry, we all took turns holding her, walking her down the hallway, fussing over her and feeding her snacks.

Karatsu: I don’t know what the staff thinks about it (laughs).

Kakizaki: I really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Karatsu: I think it is absolutely necessary to create a model. I think there are many people who feel it is difficult to live. I wonder how we can overcome the situation where people have given up, saying, “It can’t be helped. When there is a single catalyst, various voices will come up, and I think it is absolutely necessary to have a place where we can give that single voice.

Although systems have been established, the hurdle for pregnant women to work is still very high, and the structure of how to take care of a child after birth has not changed much, as it is still forced solely on the mother. I hope that DaBY will be able to offer some suggestions on this point.

 

Continue to OpenLab DaBY Round Table Talk vol.2 Childcare and the Creative Environment (2)

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